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THE Q&A: YISRAEL CAMPBELL, COMEDIAN, JEWISH CONVERT

Penis jokes are a hoary chestnut of the stand-up comedian. Ever hear the one about the Catholic who converts to three different branches of Judaism and—surprise!—gets circumcised anew each time? You will if you go see "Circumcise Me", an autobiographical one-man, off-Broadway show by Yisrael Campbell. Yisrael—Chris to his friends back in Penn-Wynne, Pennsylvania—has been telling the true story of his conversions and genital depredations for a few years now, mainly through a club stand-up routine. "Circumcise Me" is a wider project, his first aimed at a general audience, which weaves the wince-inducing aspects into a larger meditation on spirituality, alcoholism, Middle East politics and life in Florida. Dressed, as he puts it, “for 17th-century Poland” (black hat, black coat, beard and peyot, or religious side curls), Campbell is surprisingly nonplussed for someone who has just made the jump from playing events at Jewish community centres to an extended run off-Broadway. After a show one night, Campbell sat down with More Intelligent Life to answer a few questions about jokes, Judaism, faith and cheeseburgers. More Intelligent Life: I’ve seen your stand-up act (in the Berkshires). This is your first one-man show, and it has a lot more sadness and drama. Have you recently been exploring your emotional side? Yisrael Campbell: I’ve been doing for years the hour of stand-up you saw. I wanted [this show] to be more relevant to both Jewish and non-Jewish groups. I picked up a producer along the way, and she sold me on the idea that it had to be a piece of theatre. Unless your name is Jackie Mason, people want to see a dramatic arc. MIL: Both this show and your stand-up are very “insidery”. Do you worry that the goyim won’t get it? YC: The crowd is heavily Jewish, but people come from all over. They seem to like it. Part of it could be that they’re in a crowd that gets it, so it’s clear when you’re supposed to laugh. I’d love to sit people down and interrogate them, but I can’t really pull people aside and say “What didn’t you understand?” MIL: Your conversion to Judaism was an incredible struggle: three circumcisions, three courts of law and a variety of setbacks, some of them tragic. All to join a group that is not historically popular. Did you ever ask yourself what the hell am I doing this for? YC: Being Jewish isn’t something you just declare; a big part of it is the community. So I wanted to be accepted by the whole community. That said, there were times when I felt like I was a political hostage, that the hard time I was getting was because these three [rabbis] in Jerusalem were mad at these other three [rabbis] in LA, so they can’t accept me because it legitimises them. Once I was already living in Israel, in love with my wife, I wasn’t leaving. After the show there’s always an 80-year-old woman who comes up to me and goes, “It was very funny. But tell me, why would a goy want to be a Jew?” The answer is, on some level, I don’t know. Recently, the rabbi who oversaw my Orthodox conversion in Israel is being told by rabbis underneath him that none of his conversions count. So technically, I might not be Jewish still. In which case, there’s a cheeseburger with my name on it. MIL: You wouldn’t go for round four? YC: No way. Until recently I was always like, “Okay, what do I have to do now?” But something has shifted. If someone won’t accept my conversion from the rabbinate of the holy city of Jerusalem, it’s their issue. I’m done. I would not go before a fourth Bet Din [rabbinical court]. MIL: Did you ever feel that you had to disassociate the people from the theology in order to go on, or could you say “I’m joining a club where the people just happen to be insane”? YC: I’m eternally grateful to the reform movement for the welcome to Judaism they gave me. I’m also incredibly frustrated by the way most reform Jews lack a willingness to do anything Jewish. I’m grateful for the Orthodox community that strives to have a daily practice, and I’m stunned when people start talking about “the goyim”. Same thing with living in Israel. I feel like it’s an important place to live; in LA, I never felt like my being there mattered, in Israel I feel like it does. On the other hand, I think—are we kidding? We’ve finally been given a place and this is the way we’re acting? Israelis are always saying “the Greeks are gone, the Egyptians are gone, but the Jews still survive.” What they never say is that we’ve survived because we were never in charge. Now we’re in charge, and in many ways we’re acting like the Greeks and the Romans and the Egyptians. I’ve got two young sons. If something doesn’t change, those boys will be sitting at a checkpoint or on a tank with a rifle across their chests—and hopefully live through it, and hopefully not have to do anything that destroys their souls. Of course, everything I’m saying is complicated. Someone would attack me from every side for saying this, and that’s Jewish. MIL: Most of the people I know who have converted or are born again seem much more hardcore—philosophically and politically—than you. YC: There were moments where I was like that. I remember implying to my friend in LA that I had found “the Truth”. He said, "Do you realise that the Egyptians have no record of the Exodus? They don’t even know you were there. How do you think 250 years of slavery was missed by the host country?" I realised what I was looking for was a community of people with which I could strive to have a relationship with God. I think that [Jewish law] is a way of being in relationship with God, but I’m willing to acknowledge that it may have been complicated by human shortcomings over the years. I like the idea that we’re trying to figure out each step of what God wants us to do. But that’s different from saying that I’ve figured things out. MIL: It sounds like you could have walked into a Zen centre or a mosque and it would have been the same thing? YC: In high school I found out that there was lunchtime mass. I thought oh, this is kinda nice, a spiritual touchstone for my day. But it just didn’t resonate for me. And then when I moved down to Florida the first people I hung out with were a bunch of Lutherans. Also didn’t resonate. When I was in LA I signed up for the day-long meditation at the Zen centre on Mt Baldy. I was late getting there, so I’m racing down the highway when I get pulled over by the Highway Patrol. This big cop ambles up to the side of the car and was like, what you in such a hurry for, son? I said I was late for a meditation at the Zen centre. He looked at me and says,“You better slow down or you’re gonna screw up your chi.” Only in California. So I get there and after four hours of silence I was ready to rip my eyeballs out. They were like, it’s okay to fart but not cough. So I sit there for an hour stewing about why. Finally at lunch they explain that farting is beyond your control but coughing isn’t. Twenty years later, that’s all that’s stuck with me. I tried lots of things, but they just didn’t interest me. And then I happened across Judaism. MIL: Do you feel like there’s some connection between the addictive personality that made you an alcoholic and your desire to go all-out as a convert? YC: It’s hard to deny. When I started smoking pot I didn’t just want to smoke, I wanted to be a dealer. When I became a comedian, I wanted to have an off-Broadway show. It’s certainly something that I’ve had to guard against—missing out because I’m so consumed about the little things. I have to be careful, because I’m focused on the one guy that is inevitably sleeping in the audience. I’m pouring my heart out and this person is totally bored. Forget the 150 people killing themselves laughing, I have to wake that guy up! MIL: How do your fellow Orthodox view the show? YC: I’m always amazed at how many black velvet yarmulkes are in the audience. Although the two major orthodox papers won’t run the ads because of the name of the show; apparently you can’t say the word “circumcise” in print. I got one e-mail that said, “if you didn’t say the word penis I would send my ultra-orthodox family to see the show”. Once we’re open for ten years, everyone will accept it. MIL: Be honest. Did you convert for the Jewish jokes? Can you still tell Christian ones? YC: That’s the question. The Seinfeld issue. I feel like I live an authentic enough Jewish life that I can make Jewish jokes. I feel like I used to be Catholic enough to get away with those too. But at the beginning of the run I invited a Catholic priest to a show. Him sitting in the audience made me realise that I am kind of bashing Catholics all night long. I’ve never been so aware of how many times I referenced my nun aunt and Jesus being my uncle. I am struck, however, by how many people come up to me and say “I’ve got a joke for you. And you can use this one.” MIL: So, are non-Jews just waiting for the next pogrom so they can ride in on horses and take our chickens and women? YC: If so, they haven’t told me. MIL: What do you miss the most from your non-Jewish life? YC: There are Shabbat dinners where we’ve just had chicken and people ask what I’d like with my coffee and I say “milk”. MIL: So what’s next? YC: We’re thinking about touring. Everybody tells me to go to Florida, but people are like “cut out all the stuff about alcoholism and put in a lot of jokes”. I think ultimately we’d like to go back to Israel. The kids are starting to want to stay in New York, which is when you know it’s time to leave. "Circumcise Me" is playing at the Bleeker Street Theatre in New York until May 16th ~ MATTHEW LEADER Picture credit: Carol Rosegg